Interview: Dr. Nathalie Arias

Show Notes and Further Reading

2014 Article Describing Economic Inequality in the Trans-national Surf Communities of Nosara and Samara Costa Rica, from the Center For Responsible Travel

2019 Article from The Lancet Reporting on a SYstematic Review of the Lack of Nutritional Training in Medical Schools

Conocer: A Responsible, Socially Engaged Tour Operator in Nosara, Costa RIca

Interview Transcript

 

INTRODUCTION

My name is Maia Dery.

The Waves to Wisdom interviews are the result of an exploration into a world I discovered when I learned to surf at mid-life.

Some of these conversations aren’t necessarily with people who we would instantly recognize as leaders but they are all leading us in a direction I instinctively followed and have benefitted tremendously in the process. Some of them don’t have huge audiences, but they are living very large lives.

To me, these people all seem to have wisdom practices centered in their relationship to the more-than-human world, to what we usually think of as “nature.”

Surfing proved first revelatory, then revolutionary in my life. I thought I was creative, thought I knew and loved water, thought I took care of my body. But when I entered the world of surfing and waves, when I started to ritualistically return to a literal edge, I realized my vision for my life had been hampered by some artificial barriers.

Slowly, with each wave and wipeout, those barriers in my brain, heart, and body began to dissolve.

I began to wonder, what if we all had a nature based practice that cracked us open? Made us more creative? Allowed us to reliably let go with the abandon of play? Of unbridled joy? What if we all practiced vulnerability, risk and failure on a daily basis and they were fun? Wouldn’t it make our lives better? Wouldn’t it lead us to the places it feels like, in this moment of planetary peril, we need to go?

Whether you find full bodied and big hearted connection through waves or walking or digging in the dirt, I hope you find these conversations useful in your own journey of re-inhabiting your life with renewed joy, deep engagement, and increasing wisdom.

Dr. Nathalie: Dr. Nathalie: If you have the chance to get closer to the ocean that’s gonna be life changing. Maybe you’re not living the life you wanted or always expected to be, I think the ocean might help you a little bit to decide here’s my priorities now and this is what I want to do.

Maia: A couple of years ago, I left my full time job as a college instructor, one of the ways I dealt with the existential terror inherent in taking the leap into entrepreneurship and, even more frightening, radical freedom. I knew that, no matter what happened, I would be able to spend more time in the small rural community of Nosara Costa Rica, a place I’d fallen in love with because of its beauty and waves and light but even more, the open heartedness and zest for life of the of the locals and expats who live there.

Dr. Nathalie Arias is a physician, talented longboard surfer, and soon to be nutritionist who lives and practices in Nosara. In the process of facing her own health challenges, her professional journey took a turn when she became inspired to tend to and learn about her eating habits so she could continue to pursue her relationship with the ocean. Her story of a play practice leading to greater and more effective service is precisely the sort of narrative I keep running into as I deepen my own commitment to this pastime and all the embodied wisdom it has to offer to those of us willing to pay attention. I hope you enjoy Dr. Nathalie’s insight as much as I did. Welcome to Waves to Wisdom!

Dr. Nathalie: My name is Nathalie Arias. I’m 31 and I’ve been surfing for 5 years.

Maia: Five years okay excellent and we met in the water right off of Playa Guiones in Costa Rica and you are Costa Rican?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes

Maia: You were born where?

Dr. Nathalie: In San Jose?

Maia: Okay which is the capital city? [Yes] But you have family roots in Nosara?

Dr. Nathalie: My mom is from Nosara.

Maia: Okay

Dr. Nathalie: My whole… mom’s side is from Nosara.

Maia: And how did you wind up back here?

Dr.N: I mean I was always coming when I was little. Back and forth, back and forth for vacation and then I moved in 2014 after getting married.

Maia: So you married somebody who lives here? [Yes] And how is, how is Nosara different from San Jose?

Dr. Nathalie: Oh, everything.

Maia: Everything is different?

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah, I mean San Jose is like a small city, not so pretty, a lot of noise everywhere, uh, traffic, like every other city I guess…and you come to Nosara and it
Is just like a small paradise. Here on the peninsula, at least for me, I grew up there and now here every time I go back there it’s like, “Oh! Take me back to Nosara!” Yeah, it’s just like a different style of life and I’m just so used to be here now and we normally go there, and just like one or two days and then, back to Nosara!

Maia: If you were going to describe to somebody what it’s like to be here relative to in a city, what would you say?

Dr. Nathalie: It is… peaceful. Like, you are gonna see nature around you, birds, monkeys, yeah, it’s just like quiet.

Maia: So quiet. It’s just beautiful, isn’t it? [yes] Middle of the jungle really— it’s very rural here even though there are a lot of people coming through..

Dr. Nathalie: We have a lot of tourists here but we manage to have some quiet places.

Maia: So, did you learn how to surf when you moved back to Nosara?

Dr. Nathalie: My first wave ever was in 2012. [2012] But I didn’t have the chance to surf much or practice. My first green wave, it was amazing!

Maia: Your first green wave was amazing?

Dr. Nathalie: I have pictures of the whole sequence.

Maia: You do?!

Dr. Nathalie: It was a friend who was taking pictures and he took the whole sequence and I’m just like laughing really hard and I couldn’t believe it, I’m like looking behind me, “Whaaat?!?”

Maia: Oh, my goodness!

Dr. Nathalie: So that was like my first time ever, obviously but then after that I came back in 2014. I was not getting any better. I mean, I was really not strong enough because I was going once a week. My arms were like tired all the time. My sessions were like maybe three or four waves and that was like a lot already.

Maia: You were exhausted?

Dr. Nathalie: I was so exhausted and I mean it took me 2014-2015, maybe until 2016? I went like more regular like maybe 3-4 times a week.

Maia: Okay

Dr. Nathalie: So I feel like I started surfing like three years ago.

Maia: Wow! Okay, interesting.

Dr. Nathalie: I noticed what surfing was. It was like so hard for me just once a week and then now you go like, 3-4 times a week and, Oh! I can catch waves now! More than three or four every session. So that was pretty fun, actually.

Maia: But did you love it when you were only catching three or four waves a session? Was it still…

Dr. Nathalie: I did, yeah, no, it was good enough.

Maia: And how come you could only surf once a week when you first came here?

Dr. Nathalie: I was working from Monday through Saturday, like really early so I didn’t have the chance to. So Sundays was my only day.

Maia: And what’s your work?

Dr. Nathalie: I’m a medical doctor here in town. Yeah. Back then I was working in Nosara Town.

Maia: And Nosara Town’s about 6 km inland from [Guiones] the coast where we are now. And you were working, as I understand it, at the clinic?

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah, there was a new clinic there right after when I came and I was like, okay.

Maia: Okay, so that was the first couple of years. And then what happened that allowed you to surf more than just Sundays?

Dr. Nathalie: I moved out of that clinic and opened my own business, another medical office, like closer to the beach and I had my own schedule so I was able to go in the mornings— one, maybe two hours, 3-4 times a week now cause I was my own boss. So that allowed me to surf a little bit more.

Maia: And were you, I know you were learning to surf then, and I just want to say because, hopefully I’ll get to take some pictures of you before I leave to post with this interview, surfing, but you are an exceptionally talented and elegant long boarder [Thank you!] and when I was surfing for four years I think I was just figuring out how to turn the board. Uh, really you have a lot of natural ability and it’s just a pleasure watching you! [Thank you!] So, you were able to surf then three or four times a week, you’re still a medical doctor, you’ve opened your own clinic. What were you learning from surfing at that time in your life?

Dr. Nathalie: I think that I really wanted to surf and for that, I mean for me for me to be able to surf, I was learning also like how to eat healthy because I was not strong enough. My ams were like weak all the time, my back was hurting so I was learning like to stretch out more, to eat more healthy foods, sleep better and because I wanted to be more in the water. And it doesn’t matter, I was working the same, I don’t know, even more, like 10-12 hours a day but if I had like a two or maybe like an hour and 1/2 surfing in the morning, that was fine with me. I didn’t care like if I was working that much but I was being able to surf more during the week.

So I was learning like now I need to be able to work like 10- 12 hours and for this now I need to eat better, sleep better. I was not doing too good on my food because I was so used to the hospital like, like schedule— not eating sometimes, you know? Like during the whole day. So when I came here I was doing pretty much the same but then I was noticing that I was not able to surf good, or paddle, or even, like the waves were a little bit bigger I was like so done. And that that— I was not even in the lineup, it was taking me like 20-30 minutes, I was like, “Oh, there is something wrong with me!” I was just tired, I was not feeling my body, like the right way.

Maia: And surfing was teaching you?

Dr. Nathalie: Surfing was teaching me that it was really important to take care of your body in every aspect. I don’t know, like everything, I think was related to surfing back then and to learn how to handle the stress also from work, the patients and…

Maia: Okay— I find it fascinating that you had been to medical school which, in theory, is all about taking care of the human body

Dr. Nathalie: Except yours!

Maia: Except yours. LAUGH

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah it doesn’t matter you have to do everything for the patient. Yeah, it doesn’t matter, you don’t have to sleep, you don’t have to eat because you have to work to help the other people, right? Like in an emergency room, you have like 50 people and it’s just insane sometimes and then it doesn’t matter about, you have to do your job, that’s it.

Maia: That’s it! Yeah, so you had to go to the school of surf to learn how to take care of Nathalie’s body?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes

Maia: Dr. Arias needed the waves, so interesting. That, that life of owning your own clinic and you owned the pharmacy next door, is that right?

Dr. Nathalie: Mm hm, pharmacy and medical office

Maia: Okay, and that’s no longer the case you decided to make a change?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes.

Maia: How come?

Dr. Nathalie: I think I was I was working to much, well, not that much but um, I was very, being very careful with every client that comes to the pharmacy, I was treating them as a patient and that was a lot for me because they were not my patients. I wanted to be able to help them— okay, why is the headache? Have you being hydrating good? Sleeping good? Or maybe some type of food you ate? I was trying to find the root of the problem instead of just selling the pill. So I was treating every patient as a client, I mean every client as a patient, sorry, and that became a lot also. A lot of stress because I was worried about, you know like the one patient who came to buy just like Tylenol, “Oh, what if the headache is high blood pressure?” But then they didn’t have the money to pay for the consultation so I was like, you know, I think I was almost working, like double. So I decided to close the pharmacy and just get my practice

Maia: And so now you just have a medical practice.

Dr. Nathalie: Just have a medical practice.

Maia: And only house calls, right?

Dr. Nathalie:Yeah, only housecalls.

Maia: And is the lifestyle healthier now that you’ve made that change?

Dr. Nathalie: It is, for sure. Yeah I have more time for… to study, to work out, to surf. Now I just see the patient that really needs me you know, they call me, they make an appointment and I go to them so it allows me to have more free time to do more stuff. And you surf more? You do surf more?

Dr. Nathalie: I do surf more now.

Maia: Okay, so you learned to surf as an adult, as I did, you were certainly much younger than I was. Really, the motivation for this whole project and all of these interviews is the pattern that I think that I have recognized . Which is that for some surfers, it helps them, as it has you, as you’ve already articulated, it helps them be better humans. It helps them figure out how to take care of themselves both in an immediate sense, in the waves, and in a larger sense, because they want to be able, be healthy to get out into the waves [yeah]. Are there other lessons or aspects of being a wise that you think you’ve learned from the ocean and its waves?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes, big time. I think one of the biggest lessons I have learned is how to handle pressure because I can see it with my practice and I see it in the ocean when the sets are really big, the waves are like, not as nice as you want, or like when there are a lot of people and want to get a wave and there’s always somebody in front of you. I mean, that, that lesson from there, I use it a lot of, in my life, like pressure, how to handle pressure, like in every aspect like with my patient, like emergencies that just show up at my house because they know where I live. Um, I think that’s one lesson I’ve learned from the ocean.

And, being patient also. You have to be patient waiting for a nice wave. Maybe you don’t want that one and wait for the other one and somebody ’s gonna be in front of you again or behind you and then you have to wait again. So being patient also is one of the lessons I have learned from surfing and the same, I use it in my everyday life. With everything, pretty much.

Maia: Do you think there are ways in which surfing has helped you be a better medical doctor?

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah I think so like I use it with my patients. Sometimes you want the patient to do, to follow your recommendations and they don’t because the neighbor always has better advice and then you have to be patient. So I think patience is one of the biggest lessons and I think it makes me a better person or doctor because you have to be, you’ve got to understand what the person is going through, or telling you and why he decided not to follow the treatment or, yeah, I think it that helps a lot.

Maia: It’s pretty powerful if surfing can help a doctor be a better doctor.

Dr. Nathalie: It’s a little bit of everything, like being patient, you have challenges in front of you like the same way you are in the ocean, like you go expecting the waves are going to be nice and smooth and not so big and then, all of a sudden they’re like, oh, the swell is showing up and now you have these big waves and that’s a challenge already and then in the medical practice, we are so far away from everything that everything becomes like a challenge. Cause you don’t have the equipment or you don’t have like the tools sometimes and you have to figure it out and and if not send ‘em to a bigger facility. So that’s one big lesson for me also.

Maia: You have to be adaptable when you’re surfing, you have to know your limits and it sounds like you’ve had to do that in this rural practice.

Dr. Nathalie: Sometimes you try to help the patient and you realize okay, this is not my specialty but the patient doesn’t want to go to Nicoya because it’s too far and then you have to take a bus and it’s like two hours and a half but then you have to set the limits like you just said it, this is not my work and now I need you to go to a bigger facility and I have to learn also to let go of that part because sometimes I get like really attached and I really wish I could do more but then, no, I have to send the person or the patient somewhere else to get whatever the studies, you know, ultrasound, blood tests and all that that we don’t have here.

Maia: We don’t have any of that. So, we had a fascinating conversation the other day in the water about the difficulty of some of the local people to take time off of work to pay for care. Is that something that you ran into frequently when you were at the clinic— that people’s employers would not give them time off?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes, sometimes they’ve got good employers and they take the morning off and they go to the public clinic but it takes a while for you to be seen by the doctor. If not they to a private office so they choose where to go but sometimes it’s hard for them. If you don’t have the money you have to go through the public system and then you waste pretty much your whole day which is like a day of work and that’s one ways pretty much already hard for people because salaries here are not great and if you miss like a whole day it’s gonna, and the end of the week or two weeks for sure you’re gonna be short that money. And if you have a little bit of extra money you can go and pay private but still, once you get the medicine it’s really expensive. Also, cause medicine here is really expensive, so it’s a little bit of everything and if you don’t have the money and you don’t have the time and if your employer doesn’t give you the time either you’re just gonna hold the pain or whatever you’re having until it’s really, really bad, you might go and then it’s gonna be late.

Maia: Then it’s late, yes, maybe too late to do something. Yeah, it’s really, it’s a difficult thing, there’s so much inequality here, things are very expensive in part because there are a lot of people who can afford to pay high prices. But then the minimum wage is two or three dollars an hour and food here is exorbitant and I don’t know if medical care is exorbitant because, knock on wood, I haven’t had to…

Dr. Nathalie: It can be.

Maia: Yes…So were you a an ocean swimmer before you learned to surf?

Dr. Nathalie:No actually that’s embarrassing.

Maia: It’s embarrassing? What’s embarrassing?

Dr.N: Cause I was like 25-26 when I learned how to surf and I realized I didn’t know how to swim either. I was not a very good swimmer so when my leash broke that was like my first experience, it was like, “Oh! Now I have to swim but I don’t know how to swim.”

Maia: My goodness! So you’re the ocean [I’m in the ocean], your leash broke?

Dr. Nathalie: And I’m like freaking out, like about to cry and I’m looking for somebody that I know, for like help, you know I need help, cause I don’t know what to do. I know I can float but I don’t know for how long and I was getting tired and then my husband came and said, “Just stand up! You’re like right there on the sand.” [LAUGH] it was like, oh okay! So that was very embarrassing and after that I think I figured it out— I realized that I needed to know how to swim for me to be able to go and get bigger waves so I did some, not lessons, but with myself I out a snorkel and a mask and I would just swim in the swimming pool— one you put on a mask you can figure it out a little bit. [Interesting!] Yeah, and then I did a free diving course. And I think in that, it was like a 2-day course and those 2 days, once I did that, to learn the technique, how to breathe, and the safety techniques if you’re in the water and somebody’s blacking out or something like that I think after that I became, not a better swimmer but I was very confident surfing after that.

Maia: Interesting, so you didn’t know how to swim and then you learned how to swim a little bit and then you took a free diving course? [Yes] For anybody who doesn’t know explain to them what free diving is.

Dr. Nathalie: Free diving is, so they put you in a swimming pool and they teach you how to hold your breath, sort of like a static breath hold, and you have to be able to reach three minutes with that breath hold. And after that they take you to open water, like to the ocean, and you have to go down the line. The first level goes down the line 60 feet. So you have to be able to go back and forth with one breath, so I did it.

Maia: Let me just repeat this— you went from not being able to swim to holding your breath and going 60 feet down a line in the ocean? Okay, interesting— an ambitious woman!

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah and then after that, I’m good, I can surf now.

Maia: You’re not scared?

Dr. Nathalie: Bigger waves, I can hold the sets, and yeah…

Maia: No problem? It took care of that fear? [Yeah] So powerful, just to walk right into it and not not accept the not knowing. [Yes]Decide I’m gonna know!

Nathalie: Yes, I knew I really wanted to better in the water like because I was always surfing but if the wave was big I was not gonna take it because I didn’t know how the end was gonna be, like the wipe-out and all that stuff. And what if my leash breaks again and “Oh, no I have to figure it out now.” And after that, after the free diving course I was like, “Oh I can take bigger waves now and go down the line and whatever happens down there doesn’t matter.“

Maia: It’s gonna be just fine. [LAUGH].

Dr. Nathalie: Just be careful not to hit anybody and not hit yourself.

Maia: Stay away from that hard board. So interesting and this, at least in my mind, one of the things I’ve discovered about you that is related, at least in my mind is this capacity you have to realize you want to know something that you don’t know and just run right into it is that you have decided to continue your education. [Yes] Even though you’re already a medical doctor— what are you studying now?

Dr. Nathalie: Right now I’m doing a Master’s in nutrition and Public Health.

Maia: So, did you learn much about nutrition in medical school?

Dr. Nathalie: Not a single hour of nutrition. They don’t teach you anything about nutrition. They teach you, I mean they don’t teach you how to treat people with the diet, which is like pretty important. I realized from working here, if I had a patient and I was explaining him like the foods that she or he was able to eat, that I was not getting there. So, I… you know, I saw that as a challenge. I need to be able to explain this better or to teach them better or to help them. Also, you know because the same thing, we go through the same thing. If you have money to afford the medical consultation you won’t have money to go to a nutritionist or something like that, to help you with whatever plan for you to treat your diabetes or any other disease. So, I saw that happening a lot with my patients and I decided to do it for me also and to help my patients in that way a little bit more.

Maia: So exciting— and are you learning a lot that’s useful?

Dr. Nathalie: Yes, a lot.

Maia: It’s really interesting. I find it fascinating and disturbing that the professionals who are tasked with our health don’t learn about nutrition which seems foundational.

Dr. Nathalie: Now I’m doing it, I think it’s, yeah, the foundation of pretty much everything. You can avoid, you can treat, and you can reverse sometimes diseases with just the right diet and that’s all in nutrition. If you don’t have any of that knowledge it’s kinda hard, you’re just gonna prescribe medicines all the time and that’s it pretty much, you know? [Fascinating!] But the idea, my idea is to help people a little bit more in that area.

Maia: And, I am making this link in my mind but I don’t know if this is a link that has any integrity to it, but I heard you say earlier that I wasn’t taking care of myself nutritionally, surfing taught me that I needed to eat better and now you want to pass on to your patients. [Yes] Is it fair to to give surfing some of credit for the fact that you’re now to

Dr. Nathalie: Yes, all the credits actually

Maia: All the credit, you think?

Dr. Nathalie: Because once I realized I needed to be healthy and it was easy, actually. I was sick all the time and as you can see, I am like, not a very heavy person, but I was way skinnier before, I was always under weight. I’m like 5’8 and I was like 49-48 kilos, [way too light] my whole life. Way too much, because I was not sleeping good, I was not eating right… Maybe not eating right, but not eating what my body needed back then? And I was always with so much pain, I was sleeping 3 or 4 hours, you know like, the food, I realized after, I was very sensitive to a lot of food but I didn’t know until I decided to invest more time in nutrition and once I changed my whole diet and realized what foods are good for my body everything changed, you know? Like, I’m a happier person, I’m sleeping better, I put a lot of weight also, well, not a lot but now I’m like my normal, you know like, body index mass or whatever…

Maia: Yes, you look great you don’t look alarmingly thin. [LAUGH]

Dr. Nathalie: But I was like, it’s just everything, if you’re not eating right your whole body’s like not working right. Once I learned that, maybe from surfing, now I was this, now I wanted to teach it to, or pass it at least to my patients.

Maia: And the not sleeping, well was that, do you think related to nutrition, stress, all of it?

Dr. Nathalie: A little bit of everything. Nutrition, stress from work, then I was working too much and then I was too tired to surf and then I was not sleeping good, obviously, like 3-4 hours and then I was in a very bad mood the next day, “I’m not going to surf today, because I’m too tired.” So it was becoming like a cycle also and one day I decided like, I’m not going to eat meat this month

And I was feeling good but not 100% there yet.

I decided to stop eating chicken, the next month pork, and the next month dairy, and the next month eggs until I finally felt my body was… this is how I was supposed to feel! I never felt that way before. LAUGH Until I got to the point I knew what my body likes and needed. Yeah, and then I put a little bit more weight I was able to paddle more, surf more, I was catching more waves and was like, this is great!

Maia: So good!

Dr. N. : It was so amazing and then I never went back pretty much. It’s been like 3 years. Like, once I realized there’s like a group for pretty much every health problem and you, I mean you’re able to fix things. So I was thinking having this really bad insomnia, now I have to take pills and they were like strong pills but I still was not sleeping great. Once I changed my diet everything just disappeared. I was sleeping way better.

Maia; Is there anything else about surfing and the lifestyle that you’ve crafted for your self? It’s very ocean-centered, surfing as a priority in turn affects on your other priorities in ways that obviously deepen the ways that you’re able to serve this community. Is there anything that you would want people who don’t have this lifestyle, they don’t have the opportunity to just prioritized developing some kind of love of physical activity out in the natural world. What could you say to them? Is there anything you could tell them that you’ve learned from this king of lifestyle?

Dr. Nathalie: I think, it doesn’t matter the sport, you like or practice but I think that’s like the key, you know? Once you have a like a passion for everything, jujitsu, or surfing, or running, you’re gonna be focused on that and you want to be better in that and then you want to be healthy to keep doing that you want to eat right, you’re gonna stretch, I mean you want to do everything to make that sport right and you know it’s gonna make you feel. You know, whatever the sport you do, if you’re healthy, you’re happy, pretty much! That would be my advice.

Maia; Choose to be happy, choose to be healthy?

Dr. Nathalie: Yeah! You want to do all the right things for your body. To be able to realize whatever the activity you like that’s equal to happiness pretty much in my case. Once I surf in the morning I’m good for the rest of the day. That’s it!

Maia: I wonder you know I get to come here some portion of the year, and every day is so magical. The waves the spray, the rainbows of the spindrift, and the monkeys, iguanas, it’s just incredible. Are you still able to feel that this place is magical? [Um] Or does it just seem like, meh, another day in paradise.

Dr. Nathalie: No, no, yeah I mean we live in a small paradise, actually and I find myself very thankful to decide to move here. I was not very excited at the beginning but after it was like, yes, this is where I want to be and every day is the same there’s nothing besides surfing, you know, Pilates, yoga, there’s some activities but if you are not interested in any of those it can be like very boring for you but just walking on the beach can be very nice. It’s gonna help you to relax a little bit, doesn’t matter if you don’t surf, just like walking and seeing all the nature cross in front of you all the time the sunsets, the sunrises, everything’s do special. And every day’s so different, every sunset and sunrise and wave conditions every day is so different so that’s what makes this place so special.

Maia: OK, is there anything else you’d like to say about this life?

Dr. N. I think if you have the chance to get closer to the ocean that’s gonna be life changing. Maybe you’re not living the life you wanted or always expected to be, I think the ocean might help a little bit to decide here’s my priorities now and this is what I want to do. Which is what happened to me. I had some other plans before moving here and once I realized, Oh I think I like this better, I do my best to be in the ocean almost every day now. Maybe it’s not surfing, maybe it’s like fishing, spear fishing, maybe it’s just like swimming just like walking, whatever I think the ocean is like a very powerful force that is gonna help you to set down a little bit and help you decide what’s important in your life. I think that’s a good chance if you have it I think you can take a lot of advantage from it.

Maia: Wonderful!

I wish I had this opportunity to get closer to the ocean when I was little, I was like 25-26 but that’s still good.

Maia: It’s good.

Dr. Nathalie: I don’t regret it.

Maia: No well I didn’t learn until I was 40 and I do wish I had learned earlier but I’m so grateful that I did.

Dr. Nathalie:Yeah, me too. I wish sometimes the same and then I was 25-26, like Oh! tThat’s perfect! It doesn’t matter, I was just on time.

Maia: Right, well you’re such a beautiful, elegant surfer and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Dr. Nathalie: Oh, thank you for having me here.

Maia: Yeah, certainly, so fun! Thank you so much Dr. Nathalie.

Dr. Nathalie: You’re welcome, con mucho gusto!

Maia: To set up a free discovery call with Maia to talk about how she might benefit you, your group or organization, visit aavestowisdom.com.